<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1581</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/25/99 4:47:23 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 25 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1581<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
GT: First In Solar System Creation Spreadsheet<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1580<BR>
re: England, Treaty Obligations et al<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
Re: Galactica designs/miniatures<BR>
Re: Texas<BR>
Re: Free Trade<BR>
in jokes<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: ship cost<BR>
Re: Football( was Re: [OT] War of 1812)<BR>
Re: Football( was Re: [OT] War of 1812)<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re History<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 12:19:44 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: GT: First In Solar System Creation Spreadsheet<BR>
<BR>
From the _Daily Illuminator_, 25 Dec 99:<BR>
<BR>
Do you have the urge to create a solar system? The Solar System<BR>
Constructor, by Marcus L. Hulings, is for Microsoft Excel and Corel<BR>
Quattro Pro 9. It allows you to completely design solar systems down to<BR>
the smallest detail using the GURPS<BR>
Traveller: First In rules.<BR>
<BR>
Links are included on the _DI_ page:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.sjgames.com/ill/<BR>
<BR>
Thought you'd like to know....  (And it's _even_ on-topic!)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 12:36:12 -0600<BR>
From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1580<BR>
<BR>
on 25/12/1999 12:09 PM, Traveller-digest at<BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 07:30:02 -0900<BR>
> From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
> Subject: Re: Texas<BR>
> I find the whole notion of citing a _war_ as justification for<BR>
> an action to be somewhat troubling. Do you teach your students<BR>
> that law (as distinct from policy) is decided on the battlefield<BR>
> by the victors? This may reflect the reality that many people<BR>
> live in accurately but it seems somewhat anathema [IMNSHO] to<BR>
> certain notions of American Government, and "western" government<BR>
> in general such as the rule of law, individual rights, the<BR>
> government being bound by the law.<BR>
<BR>
Considering that the legality of the formation of the US was established by<BR>
force of arms rather than in a court of law, it might not be the best<BR>
possible to follow that argument too far... :><BR>
<BR>
Americans have a tendency, it seems to me as one, to drop the pretense of<BR>
law if money can be more quickly stolen by main force. This applies to<BR>
individuals as well as legal entities. See the way the seizure laws have<BR>
raped the 4th amendment for one example and Monstanto's efforts to shove<BR>
Bovine Growth Hormone on unwilling farmers for the other.<BR>
<BR>
William<BR>
- -- <BR>
Live without fear; your Creator loves you     | William Barnett-Lewis<BR>
as a mother. Go in peace to follow the good   | mailto://wlewis@mailbag.com<BR>
road and may God's blessing be with           |<BR>
you always.                                   |<BR>
St. Claire                                    |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 10:47:37 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: re: England, Treaty Obligations et al<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
>Subject: England, Treaty Obligations et al<BR>
><BR>
>Okay, now I'm as guilty as anyone of keeping this tread going. But<BR>
>can we all please drop this. It has strayed so far off topic it isn't funny<BR>
>(if it ever was on topic in the first place). How about we all just agree<BR>
...<BR>
<BR>
  But Komrade, we're only a post or two away from converting this into a<BR>
thread about playing Napoleonic campaigns w/miniatures in Traveller using<BR>
the the (blessed) Striker rules - surely a worthy cause!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 10:47:49 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
...<BR>
>>I don't see why not, the idea is cute, a refugee fleet, being pursued by<BR>
the enemy.<BR>
><BR>
>And under Traveller rules, they are somewhat better off. Hydrogen Fuel<BR>
>is a *lot* easier to get than the stuff they were always running out of. <BR>
<BR>
  Depends how many refuelling assets they retain (hmm, attackers kept going for<BR>
tankers - some things never change...); even some of the stream-lined civ ships<BR>
were such rust-buckets that surviving a skimming run was far from guaranteed.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 10:48:08 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Galactica designs/miniatures<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
><BR>
>Okay, any gearheads out there want to design the Galactica, A<BR>
>representative BaseStar, and the fighters for both sides. <BR>
<BR>
  Hmm, there was an old Different Worlds mag (IIRC) that did the various<BR>
fighters; there was also a Miniature Wargames article a few years ago on<BR>
doing a BG campaign (representing the early War) using Full Thrust rules.<BR>
Apparently there's a UK company that does lead Battlestars for 7-8 pounds<BR>
sterling each - the photos looked beautiful, but it seems too difficult <BR>
to order* them economically without a NorAm importer/distributor :(<BR>
<BR>
 *if any one in the UK can get these easily, ping me - I have lots of spare<BR>
Trav stuff still to trade :><BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 13:02:59 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Texas<BR>
<BR>
This is very off topic, but maybe I can head this off with a<BR>
specific citation...<BR>
<BR>
On 12/25/99 at 07:30 AM,  Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net> wrote<BR>
<BR>
>>  the Texas treaty of reunion provides that they<BR>
>> >may seceed from the union, by some sepcified public majority.<BR>
<BR>
>> Wrong again. The Civil War proved once and for all that NO state has the<BR>
>> legal right to leave the union.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>I was not aware that the Civil War was a Supreme Court case. The<BR>
>Constitution is interpreted by the Courts, not settled on the field of<BR>
>battle. It's called the rule of law. It has some significant advantages<BR>
>over the other method, most<BR>
>notably its lesser amount of fatalities.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>If you are claiming some other _legal_ source to prove that<BR>
>US states may not secede what is it, and why the [deleted]<BR>
>do you believe it trumps the 10th Ammendment.<BR>
<BR>
Here you go...<BR>
<BR>
ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/civil-war-usa/faq/part1<BR>
<BR>
Q1.4:  Did the Supreme Court ever rule on the legality of secession? <BR>
<BR>
   Yes, it did-- after the war.  Perhaps the clearest statement is in  the<BR>
case Texas v. White (74 U.S. 700).  Chief Justice Chase, writing  for the<BR>
court in its 1869 decision, said: <BR>
 <BR>
   "The Constitution, in all its provisions, looks to an indestructible<BR>
Union, composed of indestructible States. ... Considered, therefore, as<BR>
transactions under the Constitution, the Ordinance of Secession, adopted<BR>
by the convention and ratified by a majority of the citizens of Texas, and<BR>
all the Acts of her Legislature intended to give effect to that ordinance,<BR>
were absolutely null. They were utterly without operation in law. ... Our<BR>
conclusion, therefore, is, that Texas continued to be a State, and a State<BR>
of the Union, notwithstanding the transactions to which we have referred."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The entire decision is available on the Web at<BR>
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/cases/historic.htm<BR>
<BR>
>I find the whole notion of citing a _war_ as justification for an action<BR>
>to be somewhat troubling. Do you teach your students that law (as<BR>
>distinct from policy) is decided on the battlefield  by the victors? This<BR>
>may reflect the reality that many people  live in accurately but it seems<BR>
>somewhat anathema [IMNSHO] to  certain notions of American Government,<BR>
>and "western" government in general such as the rule of law, individual<BR>
>rights, the government being bound by the law.<BR>
<BR>
Peter, the victor on the battlefield can usually make it legal in the<BR>
courts, the loser seldom can.  In a sense, the war itself made it clear<BR>
that no state would be *allowed* to secede, and the court cases of which<BR>
Texas v White is only one, certified that no state had a legal *right* to<BR>
secede.  We make not like the rulings of that court, but as long as they<BR>
stand they are the law of the land.<BR>
<BR>
I could ObTrav something about the Moot, but I won't.  Instead, if anyone<BR>
wants to continue this thread let's take this private, okay?<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 11:11:58 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Free Trade<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
>Subject: Free Trade (Was  America, as seen by a Canadian)<BR>
...<BR>
>Don't get me started on agricultural exports.<BR>
<BR>
  Allow me to guess that you don't subsidize production anywhere near <BR>
as much as the EU or the US, right?  :(<BR>
<BR>
  I don't recall anything from CT that stated a restriction of the listed<BR>
sorts of tactics amongst worlds (and mega-corps) of the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:47:01 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com><BR>
Subject: in jokes<BR>
<BR>
On the last planet they stopped at, one of the crew had local family friend <BR>
they used as a contact.<BR>
<BR>
Senior Representative Bunkencameraden<BR>
<BR>
One person recognized Senior Bedfellow from Blume County<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 14:55:55 -0600<BR>
From: tim@premier.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> ><BR>
> >><BR>
> >>For lack of anything better to use as background noise, I was watching<BR>
> >>the Battlestar Galactica marathon on the Sci-Fi channel earlier today.<BR>
> >>And I had a silly thought.<BR>
> >><BR>
<BR>
Yes I am not isane or at least not the only wako out there : )<BR>
<BR>
Snip<BR>
> <BR>
> I've got it! They are the survivors of a "minor human race" that had<BR>
> been on the far side of K'kree space. And they are trying to find<BR>
> Earth, while fighting ther way through the K'kree who, (quite<BR>
> naturally) want to wipe them from the Universe.<BR>
<BR>
Of all the ideas I like this one.  It will not readly be identified as a <BR>
BG campagin.  It lets you play with the K'kree on a large scale. <BR>
With the highly socialy k'kree it explains why the cylons/K'kree <BR>
fighters have three crewmembers.  And base stars are round <BR>
enough.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Keep the "rag-tag fleet". But either make them all (barely) jump<BR>
> capable, or include a lot of patched together ???? (what do you call<BR>
> the ships that carry battel riders thru jump? I forget). Possibly<BR>
> kludged together out of salvaged jump units from the destroyed<BR>
> Battlestars and other *big* ships. With the result that they have next<BR>
> to *no* manueverability in normal space. <BR>
> <BR>
They should be jume one.  As for getting away from the K'kree, <BR>
remember they are on a set course, and the Baltziur(sP) character <BR>
knows roughtly this course.<BR>
<BR>
> And for what it's worth, this lets you keep that episode where they<BR>
> picked up the signal from Earth. At that point they need to be about<BR>
> 1100 parsecs from Earth (assuming they are contemporary with the 3rd<BR>
> Imperium). Call it 30 sectors. Lots of room for Cylons, and other<BR>
> unknown civilizations, as well as lots of "empty" areas.<BR>
> <BR>
> You *would* have to throw out "the great void", as it was *utter*<BR>
> nonsense, unless it was a dark nebula of some sort.<BR>
<BR>
How about a pocket uniiverse of grandfather, or Drone to protect <BR>
the last of the pre colonized humans.  ie lab cage.  It would hold <BR>
rumors of both Tera and the other colonies<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> For *real* fun combine the "back story" of the Ancient Astronauts who<BR>
> had something to do with Egypt 5000 years back and came from Cobol,<BR>
> with the Grandfather stuff. So we have TL 20 or so relics from them<BR>
> popping up, too. <BR>
> <BR>
Tim Reynolds<BR>
tim@premier.net <BR>
225-334-5063<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable <BR>
sexual disease.  It made you unsuitable for <BR>
a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.<BR>
<BR>
Terry Pratchett <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 14:59:59 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
On 12/25/99 at 12:03 PM,  "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Good point Leonard, but by the time I even knew what OS/2 was or could<BR>
>afford to buy an operating system, it was already dead and buried.<BR>
<BR>
No, not dead nor buried.  Shrinking usership and mostly unsupported, yes<BR>
but while it's still being used...not dead.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 13:29:54 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: ship cost<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/21/99 8:00 PM, kyle3054@yahoo.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Hiya!<BR>
> Finally I've written out all my rules on pc; what<BR>
> format can I send them to you? I use Microsquash<BR>
> Excel-type rubbish...<BR>
> Kyle<BR>
<BR>
Boy, I am offline for a couple days and there are 700+ messages on the TML!<BR>
Microsquash, that's a new one. Since I am so behind on the list I don't know<BR>
if anyone else has mentioned this, but others on the list may be interested<BR>
as well in your rules. Perhaps you could drop a chapter or so on the list,<BR>
or an overview. Excel type rubbish is fine for me, but can you save it in a<BR>
more Mac friendly format? I have a copy of Office 2k, but I would have to<BR>
run VPC. I can do this, but if you could save it in a Clarisworks compatible<BR>
format, it would help. That would be either Excel 3 or 4, DIF, DBF, or SYLK.<BR>
Or even ASCII unless there are complex formulaes. Excel 3 or 4 is probably<BR>
the best bet.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 13:35:23 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Football( was Re: [OT] War of 1812)<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/21/99 8:18 PM, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> So, is football with its 40 pounds of armor safer than rugby?  Maybe it<BR>
> is, I don't know the injury statistics for rugby, but in this case safe is<BR>
> certainly relative.<BR>
<BR>
I've been wondering that too, 40 lbs is a lot of mass. I would not want to<BR>
be tackled by someone the size of those players without the extra weight,<BR>
much less with.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 21:40:05 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Football( was Re: [OT] War of 1812)<BR>
<BR>
>I've been wondering that too, 40 lbs is a lot of mass. I would not want to<BR>
>be tackled by someone the size of those players without the extra weight,<BR>
>much less with.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I should point out that I have no idea of the accuracy of the figure 40lb -<BR>
I was merely quoting Giles The Englishman from Buffy The Vampire Slayer.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 17:07:56 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
Well one of these days I hope something besides Windows comes out that<BR>
allows me to run all my software and games.  If I had the programming<BR>
expertise, I'd just reverse-engineer my own copy of Windows 95 and take out<BR>
all the bad code and re-write it specifically for my own machine.  (if<BR>
that's even possible).  I'm not using Windows 98 nor will I ever be using<BR>
Windows 2000 either.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 1999 3:59 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On 12/25/99 at 12:03 PM,  "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
> >Good point Leonard, but by the time I even knew what OS/2 was or could<BR>
> >afford to buy an operating system, it was already dead and buried.<BR>
><BR>
> No, not dead nor buried.  Shrinking usership and mostly unsupported, yes<BR>
> but while it's still being used...not dead.<BR>
><BR>
> Eris<BR>
> --<BR>
> -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
> -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 13:54:00 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re History<BR>
<BR>
Mr Vickers Assertations, vs my own, both of us apparently trained<BR>
historieans, goes to show the problems with history as a discipline. We as<BR>
historians are UTTERLY reliant upon others for what we know. We can't go to<BR>
the orignal place, dig it up, and write history... we must rely upon other<BR>
people's reccolections and sources. While Mr Vicars assertations may be<BR>
more true than mine, mine were taught under an approach of documentary<BR>
evidence. What I was did not contradict anything I have learned in<BR>
Elementary or Secondary schools. We may have simply seen different sets of<BR>
documentation.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone who tells you history is a science or is absoltue is lying to you.<BR>
"History, at best, is error prone rumor mongering for political gains"<BR>
[Carl Frasure, JD, Proffesor of History UAA, Retired]. Documentation, while<BR>
the only sources for history, is not error-proof.<BR>
<BR>
I suspect the documentary sources Mr Vicars CHOOSES to use contradict the<BR>
one's my Professors CHOSE to use. It is very easy to do. Especially with<BR>
Secondary sources. I've seen a treaty of Reunion for texas, in collections<BR>
of source materials. I've seen teriary sources for Texas secession in 1859;<BR>
I've seen multiple sources (Secondary and tertiary) that point out Texan<BR>
units fought only under the flag of Texas, not the Confederate flag.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: What we have is, at best, equivalent to secondary sources; the<BR>
only primary sources we have are records of what happened in our own games.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, for those who don't know:<BR>
Primary source: Records of the events.<BR>
Secodary source: Edited Interviews, analysis of primary sources.<BR>
Tertiary source: Anything which is not a primary or secondary source.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 15:04:55 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Good point Leonard, but by the time I even knew what OS/2 was or could<BR>
> afford to buy an operating system, it was already dead and buried.<BR>
<BR>
Funny, IBM still sells it. Though you'd have the devil's own time<BR>
finding out, since they were silly enough to agree to a contract for<BR>
Win 98 that required them to quite advertising OS/2 (not that their<BR>
advertising had been all that great).<BR>
<BR>
The handwriting *is* on the wall, sinced they just terminated support<BR>
for OS/2 Warp 3. Warp 4 isstill supported, but we have to wonder for<BR>
how long.<BR>
<BR>
I really do enjoy watching Windows apps crash and burn and being able<BR>
to handle the situation by merely closing the window they were running<BR>
in. <BR>
<BR>
Alas, the last couple of versions of Win32 have been made<BR>
*deliberately* incompatible with OS/2. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 14:55:13 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>>Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
> ...<BR>
>>>I don't see why not, the idea is cute, a refugee fleet, being pursued by<BR>
> the enemy.<BR>
>><BR>
>>And under Traveller rules, they are somewhat better off. Hydrogen Fuel<BR>
>>is a *lot* easier to get than the stuff they were always running out of. <BR>
><BR>
>   Depends how many refuelling assets they retain (hmm, attackers kept<BR>
> going for tankers - some things never change...); even some of the<BR>
> stream-lined civ ships were such rust-buckets that surviving a<BR>
> skimming run was far from guaranteed.<BR>
<BR>
If I was Adama, the fleet would normal jump to the outer system,<BR>
preferably after scouts located a suitable "iceball". Skimming would be<BR>
*suicide* with that mess.<BR>
<BR>
Also, outer system iceballs would tend to have a lot of badly needed<BR>
life support chemicals.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:50:44 +0000<BR>
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
At 09:36 PM 12/24/99 PST, you wrote:<BR>
>For lack of anything better to use as background noise, I was watching<BR>
>the Battlestar Galactica marathon on the Sci-Fi channel earlier today.<BR>
>And I had a silly thought.<BR>
><BR>
>*Could* the BG background be salavaged from all the bad science and<BR>
>worse writing and turned into a campaign?<BR>
><BR>
>-- <BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Oh yes.<BR>
<BR>
Where are my notes.....<BR>
<BR>
Basic structure that I had sketched some time back:<BR>
<BR>
Time: just after the war between Grandfather & the Hivers (280,000 years ago).<BR>
<BR>
Where: Sector far from Vland & Terra<BR>
<BR>
"cylons" (described in BG as a lizard like race), were Droyne. Destruction<BR>
caused by the Hivers left only a few Droyne leader/thinkers. They supported<BR>
them selves by extending their lives through psionics & cybernetics.  Humans<BR>
continued in the role of worker race. Because there were so few of the<BR>
Cylons <droyne> left, the human colonies became more and more self governing<BR>
and expanding out side of the frozen image of what is correct. Ultimately<BR>
the now radically cybernetically altered leader/thinkers, alive well past<BR>
where droyne would normally be, begin to fear the human workers and begin a<BR>
series of attempts to reduce the human population to manageable levels.<BR>
Humans view these as wars, the Cylon/droyne seem them as "thinning the<BR>
herd". The fact that the thining operations have no effect beyond a few<BR>
decades eventually causes the leaders to declare the humans a mortal danger<BR>
and start an outright extermination campaign.<BR>
<BR>
Changes from Canon.<BR>
<BR>
No one retains "jump" ability; but worm holes do exist, and are used for<BR>
interstellar travel. This enables any ship to get from one star to another<BR>
without having to suck up large percentages of hull with fuel.<BR>
<BR>
Also provides choke points; Cylon/Droyne don't have enough ships to cover<BR>
all know wormholes, and not all existant wormholes are known. <BR>
<BR>
There is more; but in normal fashion, so carefully filed that it won't<BR>
surface until Cleon is crowned.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
  <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 15:09:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Well one of these days I hope something besides Windows comes out that<BR>
> allows me to run all my software and games.  If I had the programming<BR>
> expertise, I'd just reverse-engineer my own copy of Windows 95 and take out<BR>
> all the bad code and re-write it specifically for my own machine.  (if<BR>
> that's even possible).  I'm not using Windows 98 nor will I ever be using<BR>
> Windows 2000 either.<BR>
<BR>
Get a copy of OS/2 Warp 4 and a copy of Partition Magic. Keep Win 95<BR>
for the stuff that just plain *won't* run under Win-OS/2. Change the<BR>
drive to have 3 partitions: Win95 OS & config files, OS/2 config and OS<BR>
files, and one for shared data/programs. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 18:26:56 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Okay, any gearheads out there want to design the Galactica, A<BR>
> representative BaseStar, and the fighters for both sides.<BR>
<BR>
The problem I've run into so far is that I haven't been able to find any<BR>
definitive information on Galactica's size.  One source indicates a<BR>
length of _4025_ meters....<BR>
<BR>
BTW, what TL is the BSG universe?<BR>
> <BR>
> Designs for members of the "ragtag fleet" would be nice too.<BR>
<BR>
For at least some of the "ragtag fleet", you can use canonical ships.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 19:36:16 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
I already have Partition Magic (nothing with a hard drive should be without<BR>
it).  As for Os/2, how would I get a hold of it and for how much?  I'm<BR>
pinching pennies these days.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 1999 6:09 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > Well one of these days I hope something besides Windows comes out that<BR>
> > allows me to run all my software and games.  If I had the programming<BR>
> > expertise, I'd just reverse-engineer my own copy of Windows 95 and take<BR>
out<BR>
> > all the bad code and re-write it specifically for my own machine.  (if<BR>
> > that's even possible).  I'm not using Windows 98 nor will I ever be<BR>
using<BR>
> > Windows 2000 either.<BR>
><BR>
> Get a copy of OS/2 Warp 4 and a copy of Partition Magic. Keep Win 95<BR>
> for the stuff that just plain *won't* run under Win-OS/2. Change the<BR>
> drive to have 3 partitions: Win95 OS & config files, OS/2 config and OS<BR>
> files, and one for shared data/programs.<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 00:45:26 +0000<BR>
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
At 03:04 PM 12/25/99 PST, you wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
><snip><BR>
><BR>
>Funny, IBM still sells it. Though you'd have the devil's own time<BR>
>finding out, since they were silly enough to agree to a contract for<BR>
>Win 98 that required them to quite advertising OS/2 (not that their<BR>
>advertising had been all that great).<BR>
><BR>
>The handwriting *is* on the wall, sinced they just terminated support<BR>
>for OS/2 Warp 3. Warp 4 isstill supported, but we have to wonder for<BR>
>how long.<BR>
><BR>
>I really do enjoy watching Windows apps crash and burn and being able<BR>
>to handle the situation by merely closing the window they were running<BR>
>in. <BR>
><BR>
>Alas, the last couple of versions of Win32 have been made<BR>
>*deliberately* incompatible with OS/2. <BR>
><BR>
>-- <BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Actually, it is becomming an "imbedded" system.<BR>
<BR>
My mainframe (a "multiprise" box) has a Hardware Monitor Console: a PC<BR>
running WARP. It manages all the low level support functions for the big<BR>
box; even booting the mainframe is done from an Icon on the Warp desktop.<BR>
<BR>
There is also a communictions controller, the IBM 3172, that is actually<BR>
managed by Warp. <BR>
<BR>
The Support Update Facilty (SUF) that comes with the mainframe is also run<BR>
on a PC running WARP.<BR>
<BR>
It isn't so much dying, as it is moving away from home use into support roles.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1581<BR>
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